tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post113722617624890718..comments2024-02-21T12:11:32.886-05:00Comments on Bats Left/Throws Right: All Knowledge Is Incomplete Knowledge, But Some Is More Incomplete Than OthersJames Briggs Stratton "Doghouse" Rileyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05378802364709433791noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137732373894999092006-01-19T23:46:00.000-05:002006-01-19T23:46:00.000-05:00Matthew,First, I'm excited because I just figured ...Matthew,<BR/><BR/><B>First</B>, I'm <I>excited</I> because I just figured out how to use these HTML <I>t</I><B>a</B><I>g</I><B>s</B>!!<BR/><BR/>Now then...<BR/><I>...natural monopolies, in our discussion water purification, are an example of an industry where competition does not lead to innovation and increased efficiency, simply becuase competition in a natural monopoly is redundant and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137522433313693662006-01-17T13:27:00.000-05:002006-01-17T13:27:00.000-05:00I would just like to point out that "the market" w...I would just like to point out that "the market" we have right now is not "free" at all. This is one of the most pervasive myths of capitalism, I think. E.g. as long as the government spends huge amounts of dollars to subsidize agro-businesses, even going so far as changing laws and regulations to benefit them (and other big-business players who donate enough cash to their re-election campaign), Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137476497087523552006-01-17T00:41:00.000-05:002006-01-17T00:41:00.000-05:00Ok, I lied. Here's a basic example in game theory...Ok, I lied. Here's a basic example in game theory to consider (I think I heard about this in one of Hofstader's books). To be clear, I am trying to show a flaw in the notion that if each individual in society acts in his own best interests then society as a whole will benefit, which here I'll take to mean that the outcome is best for each individual in society. I'm leaving the discussion of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137475386000984542006-01-17T00:23:00.000-05:002006-01-17T00:23:00.000-05:00Doug, I fear I may not have made myself clear. Wh...Doug, <BR/><BR/>I fear I may not have made myself clear. While my original post was a response to your question, in particular your corollary question (natural monopolies, in our discussion water purification, are an example of an industry where competition does not lead to innovation and increased efficiency, simply becuase competition in a natural monopoly is redundant and ultimately Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137469925696754172006-01-16T22:52:00.000-05:002006-01-16T22:52:00.000-05:00Matthew,You know, telephones used to be considered...Matthew,<BR/><BR/>You know, telephones used to be considered a natural monopoly. Then ATT was broken up, the market opened, and now we have a landscape very different. (Chris Clarke regards that as the advent of a decline in service, based on his observed increase in the frequency of payphones that don't work. Assuming that's true, and I have no idea, is it possible that another explanation is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137444394664837122006-01-16T15:46:00.000-05:002006-01-16T15:46:00.000-05:00Sorry for somewhat off-topic post, but I doubt man...Sorry for somewhat off-topic post, but I doubt many are reading this thread anymore anyway.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous that will not be named, you do well in your last post to demonstrate why the libertarian ideology is garbage. <BR/><BR/>First, and this is just something that I find annoying on an aesthetic level, is how you (or at least the liberatarians of my experience) seem to live and die by your Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137441285044130382006-01-16T14:54:00.000-05:002006-01-16T14:54:00.000-05:00Peter said "There are more than four million corpo...Peter said "There are more than four million corporations in the US alone, the vast majority of them are perfectly ethical..."<BR/><BR/>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...ahhhh...HAHAHA...ooohhh...ahem...teehee...<BR/>whooo...oh...wait...you were being serious. <BR/><BR/>oh. ahem...*chuckle*DJ Shiva.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16853102843702253030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137424608613540442006-01-16T10:16:00.000-05:002006-01-16T10:16:00.000-05:00"Anonymous, go drink a big glass of water from a s..."Anonymous, go drink a big glass of water from a stream downwind of a power plant and get back to me. <BR/><BR/>Better yet, feed tuna to your child every day for a month."<BR/><BR/>It is not surprising that a lot of non-libertarians misunderstand what we are proposing because a lot of libertarians use our buzz words that we understand between ourselves but others aren't familiar with. <BR/><BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137406239873769772006-01-16T05:10:00.000-05:002006-01-16T05:10:00.000-05:00Peter:Just for the record, I am in favor of charte...Peter:<BR/><BR/>Just for the record, I am in favor of charter schools and school vouchers.Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137387257916819242006-01-15T23:54:00.000-05:002006-01-15T23:54:00.000-05:00Other anonymous (I'll include my name at the end s...Other anonymous (I'll include my name at the end so that there's no confusion) should follow my suggestion; I was not saying that various untilities are such an example (I'm especially not sure about being union-run or innovative), but these are held up as a textbook, econ 101 example of natural monopolies where competition need not be beneficial. I guess I was primarily responding to your Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137381744803797182006-01-15T22:22:00.000-05:002006-01-15T22:22:00.000-05:00Oh, Peter, really. You think that the fact that th...Oh, Peter, really. You think that the fact that there are honest corporations in America means that Enron was operating in the free market? You can't be that silly.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, go drink a big glass of water from a stream downwind of a power plant and get back to me. <BR/><BR/>Better yet, feed tuna to your child every day for a month.<BR/><BR/>Or, you know, don't, because I don't wish on juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261612060585536752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137378508747342372006-01-15T21:28:00.000-05:002006-01-15T21:28:00.000-05:00Anonymous seems to suggest that utilities are an ...Anonymous seems to suggest that utilities are an example of a monopoly, union-run industry which is innovative and efficient. I'd be interested in the details behind that claim.<BR/><BR/>Julia, in a rather mean-spirited response, states that there are 'a shitload of industries where whining about regulation (and lots of money filtered through lobbyists) led to deregulation which resulted in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137373256295151312006-01-15T20:00:00.000-05:002006-01-15T20:00:00.000-05:00Julia!Ya know, Peter? That's not true. The free ma...Julia!<BR/><BR/><I>Ya know, Peter? That's not true. The free market didn't have a chance, because Enron's friends-for-hire in government kept on shovelling money at them and changing laws to allow them to avoid regulation. They would have gone under years earlier and the public would have been saved a huge amount of money if the free market had applied to Enron.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually Julia, it isAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137342870150071782006-01-15T11:34:00.000-05:002006-01-15T11:34:00.000-05:00Ya know, Peter? That's not true. The free market d...Ya know, Peter? That's not true. The free market didn't have a chance, because Enron's friends-for-hire in government kept on shovelling money at them and changing laws to allow them to avoid regulation. They would have gone under years earlier and the public would have been saved a huge amount of money if the free market had applied to Enron. <BR/><BR/>The criminal justice system shut them downjuliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261612060585536752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137338957913685802006-01-15T10:29:00.000-05:002006-01-15T10:29:00.000-05:00By the way, everyone's favorite Worker's Paradise,...By the way, everyone's favorite Worker's Paradise,™ <B>Sweden,</B> has had school choice and for-profit schools since 1992 and their education system is <I>thriving</I> as a result.<BR/><BR/>http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/news/2003-01-06.html<BR/><BR/>yours/<BR/>peterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137336400102188532006-01-15T09:46:00.000-05:002006-01-15T09:46:00.000-05:00Cynthia!Public education is what made the USA so c...Cynthia!<BR/><BR/><I>Public education is what made the USA so competitive in the past. The ideas that ALL of our citizens should be educated through 12th grade and that the cost of that education should be borne by all adult citizens (for a shared stake in our future) propelled us to economic dominance.</I><BR/><BR/>That was then and this is now. Just prior tol WWII, more than half of all Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137316992934904312006-01-15T04:23:00.000-05:002006-01-15T04:23:00.000-05:00can anyone identify another industry where free an...<I>can anyone identify another industry where free and vigorous competition did not result in innovation and improved efficiency?</I><BR/><BR/>I can identify a shitload of industries where whining about regulation (and lots of money filtered through lobbyists) led to deregulation which resulted in plummeting innovation and efficiency, but I suspect that's kinda what you're looking for.<BR/><BR/>juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261612060585536752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137298397962911032006-01-14T23:13:00.000-05:002006-01-14T23:13:00.000-05:00In response to the last anoymous, I'd suggest e st...In response to the last anoymous, I'd suggest e start by looking at utilities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137296803134885032006-01-14T22:46:00.000-05:002006-01-14T22:46:00.000-05:00A simple question: can anyone identify another mon...A simple question: can anyone identify another monopoly, union-run industry which is innovative and efficient?<BR/><BR/>(Corollary question: can anyone identify another industry where free and vigorous competition did not result in innovation and improved efficiency?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137291984925367112006-01-14T21:26:00.000-05:002006-01-14T21:26:00.000-05:00One tiny point from this teacher:The reason many p...One tiny point from this teacher:<BR/><BR/>The reason many private schools are so attractive and have terrific scores is that they get to pick and choose their students. There are actual applications that must be approved (I should know as I've signed a few for former students).<BR/><BR/>We public school teachers teach the rest of America.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137284496682695852006-01-14T19:21:00.000-05:002006-01-14T19:21:00.000-05:00If you really want to put your finger on the scale...If you really want to put your finger on the scale of comparing %GDP education spending, adjust for %GDP/pupil. Since Belgiam is skewed much older than the US you'll get an even bigger margin. Of course, by this logic, the proper price of a candy bar in the U.S. should be something like $17. But why start getting hung up on fairness?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137281911463900532006-01-14T18:38:00.000-05:002006-01-14T18:38:00.000-05:00Speaking as a Middle School teacher, my biggest pr...Speaking as a Middle School teacher, my biggest problem is students and parents who don't give a damn. Give me either an involved and interested student or parent (ideally both) and I can teach anyone anything. Give me 5 classes of 37 dominated by apathy and disruption and I have trouble teaching the basics. I failed 100+ students last trimester (primarily for lack of effort) and less than a Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137281128515030032006-01-14T18:25:00.000-05:002006-01-14T18:25:00.000-05:00Johnny Magnum,That's basic Middle School construct...Johnny Magnum,<BR/><BR/><I>That's basic Middle School constructivist pedagogy.</I><BR/><BR/>I fully aware of what it is because I follow the education journals, but I'd be interested in any link to data which purports to show that the pay-off comes in high school when the US students surge ahead of their international peers because of the solid foundation they've received in the wheel spinning TangoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228734445464184781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137278532307736522006-01-14T17:42:00.000-05:002006-01-14T17:42:00.000-05:00First off, congratulations on a thoughtful piece. ...First off, congratulations on a thoughtful piece. I appreciate bloggers who actually write essays rather than just blurbs. So, it was a pleasure to read.<BR/><BR/>However, the piece was marred with some bad analysis. You quote Stossel as saying: "<I>Here in Belgium the government spends less than American schools do per student..."</I> and you offer some unlinked data to support your attempted TangoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228734445464184781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11211639.post-1137278147198920242006-01-14T17:35:00.000-05:002006-01-14T17:35:00.000-05:00You do a lot of good for your cause by letting Joh...You do a lot of good for your cause by letting <A HREF="http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=19&media_outlet_id=19" REL="nofollow">John</A> <A HREF="http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/johnstossel" REL="nofollow">Stossel</A> near it, I can tell you that.<BR/><BR/>I don't think anybody characterized him as anti-education, by the way. <BR/>I think he was characterized as deceptive, glib, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com